Greetings!
I haven't written in a over a month as things have been very busy at home! School has been wrapping up which has really taken much of my time and I just haven't had the time to write. On this post I would like to talk about my transition from the Novus Ordo "church" to the true Roman Catholic Church. It has been about 6 months since I made the decision to leave and about 3 months since I began going to the Holy Mass of the Ages at a traditional Roman Catholic chapel. The obvious differences between the two is the validity of Holy Orders and the Sacraments as well as their stance on the papal see being vacant (i.e.: sedevacante). What I would really like to cover in this post is the manner in which some things are done in the Roman Catholic Church and the types of people that are sedevacantists versus the average Novus Ordites.
There are so many ways that the Novus Ordo "church" differs from the true Roman Catholic Church. These are pictures of the outside and the inside of a Novus Ordo "church" and these are pictures of the outside (what used to be one anyway) and the inside of a real Roman Catholic Church. This is a picture of a Novus Ordo "priest" and this a picture of a real Roman Catholic priest. This is a picture of a Novus Ordo "mass" and this is a picture of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. What a drastic difference!
I would like to briefly touch on the differences in the people that are true Roman Catholic and the Novus Ordo crowd. The main difference I have found is charity. Yes, charity. Believe it or not, those hard-headed, pius, old-fashioned, old-timers are actually very charitable. Of course, they might get a little upset when discussing their Faith because they see what the likes of false "popes" John XXIII, Paul VI, etc have done to the Catholic Faith. But I will give you this challenge. Tell one of the "pius" Novus Ordites that you are a sedevacantist and see what type of charity you get then. You will not receive anything but bitterness and hate. Believe me, I know from experience. They hate anything that has to do with tradition and the true Catholic faith because they know it disproves their Novus Ordo faith. I have been warmly welcomed at the chapel I started going to and have never been happier in my life. I'm not saying that these people are perfect. Some sedevacantists have a notorious reputation for being uncharitable, but I am intent on personally breaking that reputation. I know where they are coming from. The people in the Novus Ordo "church" have been lied to for over 40 years and it has sent many people to damnation.
Another example in the difference in the sedevacantist Roman Catholic chapels and the Novus Ordo "churches" is the way people live their faith. I don't want to give a blanket description to Novus Ordites, but for the most part many of these people would rather be anywhere than "mass". They come in late, dress inappropriately and leave as soon as they receive "communion". Those types of things broke my heart when I was still going to the Novus Ordo "mass". Now granted, a lot of that has to do with the total lack of catechesis as well as the lack of fear of God, but MANY of those people frankly don't care. They would be just as happy going to a McChurch and clapping and dancing and listening to drums and electric guitars (which, by the way, has crept into many Novus Ordo parishes). It's a sad sight indeed.
Like I stated before, no one is perfect, but if you examine how sedevacantist Catholics live and act it is a totally different story. They are very devout Catholics and are intent on following the rules of the Roman Catholic Church and raising their families in the Catholic Faith. Nowadays, most Novus Ordites couldn't even tell you how to pray the Rosary or the last time they went to confession. I don't mean to blast these poor folks; many of them (maybe even you) are just doing the best they can. I just mean to show the drastic differences in the two.
I hope the Holy Ghost will use some of what I have written to pierce your heart and help you realize that the Novus Ordo "church" is NOT the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. They abandoned they faith long ago. May the Holy Ghost and Our Blessed Mother bless you.
Good sir.
ReplyDeleteI thank God for your passion, be it misguided.
I only seek with this comment to correct your hyperbole.
First, I want to completely agree with you that many liturgical abuses are perpetrated everyday within the Church. How does this differ from any age, though? Every era of the Church has its fights, this is one of ours. I also want to agree with you (and others who agree with you) that Vatican II has, in many circles, been completely misinterpreted, misunderstood, and even lied about. After every council, in the history of Christ's Church, there is a time of upheaval and backwardness. After each of those times, there is a renewal within the Church. That is coming, brother, trust me.
On the hyperbole: Please do not perpetuate the idea that all priests in the Church today are hippies and abusers (of both the human and divine), and that the Novus Ordo is a circus with women priests and dancing. Must unfortunately, these things DID happen on rare occasion, and if this was honestly your primary experience with the Novus Ordo, I sincerely apologize.
I have been to Novus Ordo Masses most of my life (as you had), so it is all I have known. When I reached college, however, I began to dig much deeper into the Faith and learned immeasurable truths. I have attended the Tridentine Rite Mass several times this semester at a local church and I am always in awe of its beauty, no doubt. I also realized through these occasions, though, that there is no way this Mass could have been said in the Early Church. It is very difficult to carry around a thurible and cope while underground, running from Romans, Jews, and Greeks. I did more research and firmly believe that the order of the first Masses (through possibly the 4th century even) most closely model the same as the Novus Ordo (see the writings of St. Justin Martyr), and were most certainly done in the vernacular.
(Apologies, I had to split the comment into two)
(Part 2, read the other first. Again, sorry for having to split it.)
ReplyDeleteI don't know where exactly I was going with this, but I will try to summarize: I agree, Vatican II, the Novus Ordo, etc. were hijacked in their early years and used to promote a liberal "catholocism" that is in direct contrast to the teachings of Christ's Church. I will also agree that protestantism has been allowed to creep much too far into the Church (and even the Mass). HOWEVER, as with any time period in the Church, the answer is not to turn away from the Vicar of Christ in the Holy See. Christ said the gates of the netherworld would not prevail against His Church built upon Peter. If the chain of apostolic succession ended before John XXIII, as you claim, then Christ lied, and Christ can not lie. Accept him or not, even LIKE him or not, Benedict is the Vicar of Christ, the earthly head of His Bride, the Church. My friend, you are falling into the same trap set for Martin Luther, King Henry VIII, and the Eastern Churches. I want to encourage you, as at those times, the Church is being renewed from within, as well! St. John of the Cross, St. Charles Borromeo, and many others chose to confront the problems of the people within the Church from within, and did not separate, I invite you to do the same. "Novus Ordites" as you call us, are not at all like you describe. Those abuses have, for the most part, been snuffed out, and some of the holiest people I know attend the Novus Ordo daily. I can, contrary to what you say, pray the Most Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and I do so every day! I pray the Liturgy of the Hours, I discern God's Holy Will, I am about to start St. Louis de Montfort's Total Consecration to Mary, and I have a devotion to the Sacred Heart of Our Lord. Can you fault me for those things? You certainly can fault me in other ways (I, being a sinner), but I do not think in those.
I pray, brother (or sister, I apologize, I have only read the two most current posts and could not draw much about you from that) that you will hear my words with charity, because they have been written with charity. I have certainly rambled and probably not even made my point, for this, I apologize.
I will leave you with the response of Cardinal Ignatius Kung to his Chinese captors as they tried to torture him into denouncing the Pope (by the way, he was captured before Vatican II and released MUCH later, and still did not denounce the Holy Father): "I am a Roman Catholic Bishop. If I denounce the Holy Father, not only would I not be a Bishop, I would not even be a Catholic. You can cut off my head, but you can never take away my duties." Amen.
May the Lord Jesus Christ bring unity to His Bride, the Church and may He bless you through the prayers of His Mother and all the angels and saints.
I WILL RESPOND IN ALL CAPS TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN YOUR COMMENTS AND MY RESPONSE. I'm not yelling, I promise!!! :)
ReplyDeleteHow does this differ from any age, though?
IT DIFFERS BECAUSE NOTHING OF THIS MAGNITUDE HAS TAKEN PLACE BEFORE. WHEN CAN YOU LOOK IN HISTORY AFTER ANY COUNCIL AND SEE THE DEVASTATION OF THE FAITH THAT HAS TAKEN PLACE IN THE LAST 45 YEARS? YOU CANNOT.
On the hyperbole: Please do not perpetuate the idea that all priests in the Church today are hippies and abusers (of both the human and divine), and that the Novus Ordo is a circus with women priests and dancing. Must unfortunately, these things DID happen on rare occasion,
I'M NOT SAYING THAT ALL THESE THINGS ARE THE NORM, I'M SAYING THAT THEY ARE ALLOWED TO GO ON AND NOTHING IS BEING DONE ABOUT THEM. RATZINGER, THE "BISHOPS" AND THE "PRIESTS" CONTINUE TO STAND BY AND EVEN PROMOTE THE ABOMINATIONS THAT GO ON. IF THESE THINGS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED 60 YEARS AGO THESE MEN WOULD BE IMMEDIATELY REPLACED. IF YOU READ THE REST OF MY BLOG YOU WILL FIND MORE OF THESE INSTANCES.
I have attended the Tridentine Rite Mass several times this semester at a local church and I am always in awe of its beauty, no doubt. I also realized through these occasions, though, that there is no way this Mass could have been said in the Early Church. It is very difficult to carry around a thurible and cope while underground, running from Romans, Jews, and Greeks. I did more research and firmly believe that the order of the first Masses (through possibly the 4th century even) most closely model the same as the Novus Ordo (see the writings of St. Justin Martyr), and were most certainly done in the vernacular.
I AGREE THAT THE MASSES WEREN'T LIKE THE TRIDENTINE RITE IN THE EARLY CHURCH, BUT THE MASS HAS ORGANICALLY GROWN OVER THE CENTURIES TO THE TRIDENTINE RITE. SLOWLY AND PAINSTAKENLY, AND ALL FOR THE REVERENCE AND THE GLORY OF GOD. THE NOVUS ORDO "MASS" WAS FABRICATED IN THE MATTER OF 3 YEARS BY MANY MODERNIST AND LIBERAL (AND IN THIS CASE, MASONIC AND PROTESTANT) MEN WHO WANTED TO PLEASE MAN RATHER THAN GOD AND IN SOME CASES TO DESTROY THE ROMAN CATHOLIC FAITH. THE CHURCH CAN NOT GIVE HARMFUL PRACTICES OR DOCTRINE. THESE MEN THAT PROMOTED AND ALLOWED THIS TO HAPPEN APOSTATIZED THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH BY CREATING AND SIGNING THE V2 DOCUMENTS THAT COMPLETELY GO AGAINST WHAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS ALWAYS TAUGHT AND HELD.
HOWEVER, as with any time period in the Church, the answer is not to turn away from the Vicar of Christ in the Holy See. Christ said the gates of the netherworld would not prevail against His Church built upon Peter. If the chain of apostolic succession ended before John XXIII, as you claim, then Christ lied, and Christ can not lie. Accept him or not, even LIKE him or not, Benedict is the Vicar of Christ, the earthly head of His Bride, the Church.
ReplyDeleteCHRIST NEVER SAID THAT WE WOULD ALWAYS HAVE A POPE. HE SAID THE GATES OF HELL WOULD NOT PREVAIL AGAINST THE CHURCH. THERE HAVE BEEN OCCASIONS IN THE CHURCH'S HISTORY THAT WE HAVE NOT HAD A POPE; EVERY TIME A POPE DIES THERE IS A PERIOD OF SEDEVACANTE UNTIL THE NEXT POPE IS ELECTED. Fr. RATZINGER IS NOT THE POPE. HE IS A HERETIC BY CHOICE. HE HAS REPEATEDLY DONE THINGS THAT A TRUE POPE WOULD NEVER DO. AGAIN, LOOK AROUND ON SOME WEBSITES AND THE REST OF THE BLOG.
My friend, you are falling into the same trap set for Martin Luther, King Henry VIII, and the Eastern Churches. I want to encourage you, as at those times, the Church is being renewed from within, as well! St. John of the Cross, St. Charles Borromeo, and many others chose to confront the problems of the people within the Church from within, and did not separate, I invite you to do the same.
ON THE CONTRARY, LUTHER AND KING HENRY VII DIDN'T LIKE THE FACT THAT CHURCH DIDN'T PLEASE THEM OR SUIT THEIR NEEDS. LUTHER IN THE BEGINNING WAS OPPOSED TO THE ABUSES THAT WERE GOING ON WITH THE INDULGENCES AND IT TURNED INTO MUCH MORE LATER. WE HAVE HAD MANY POPES AND BISHOPS WHO WERE BAD PEOPLE, BUT THE CHURCH HAS NEVER TAUGHT ERROR OR LED PEOPLE INTO HARMFUL PRACTICES. THE VATICAN INSTITUTION YOU CALL THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS DONE JUST THAT. WHEN THESE MEN DECIDED TO START TEACHING ERROR AND FORCE IT UPON THE FAITHFUL THEY FELL INTO HERESY. I DON'T HAVE TIME (OR SPACE) TO CITE ALL THE ERRORS AND ACTS OF APOSTASY AND HERESY THESE MEN (JOHN XXII, PAUL VI, JPII, AND BENEDICT) HAVE DONE, BUT THERE IS MORE THAN ENOUGH PROOF TO LET PEOPLE KNOW THEY ARE NO LONGER CATHOLIC. READ A LITTLE MORE OF THE BLOG AND YOU WILL SEE EVIDENCE OF THIS.
THERE HAS NEVER, I REPEAT NEVER, THAT THE CHURCH HAS GIVEN HARMFUL PRACTICES OR DOCTRINE TO THE FAITHFUL. WHEN SOMETHING LIKE THAT HAPPENS THE PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE APOSTATIZE AND ARE NO LONGER CATHOLIC.
"Novus Ordites" as you call us, are not at all like you describe.
NOT ALL OF YOU ARE LIKE THAT……
Those abuses have, for the most part, been snuffed out, and some of the holiest people I know attend the Novus Ordo daily.
ReplyDeletePLEASE DON'T TAKE OFFENSE TO THIS: I'M NOT SURE WHAT PART OF THE PLANET YOU LIVE ON, BUT LITURGICAL ABUSES ARE OCCURRING MORE RAPIDLY THAN EVER. SO IS THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FAITH. CHECK OUT NOVUSORDOWATCH.COM, CATHCON BLOGSPOT OR YOUR LOCAL NOVUS ORDO PARISH FOR MORE PROOF.
MANY PEOPLE IN THE SAME SITUATION AS YOURSELF SURROUND YOURSELF WITH A GOOD BUNCH OF PEOPLE OR GO TO A PARISH THAT IS LESS RADICAL AND MORE TRADITIONAL THAN OTHERS AROUND. HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU SAID "WELL, FR. X IS SAYING MASS (AT WHEN/WHEREVER) SO I WILL GO HERE INSTEAD"? YOU HAVE TO DO THAT BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY BAD CLERGY OUT THERE SPEWING GARBAGE AND THE PEOPLE IN CHARGE EITHER DO NOTHING OR WORSE PROMOTE IT. YOU DON'T HAVE TO LOOK FAR TO FIND IT. THIS HAPPENS BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT CATHOLIC. JUST BECAUSE IT SAYS CATHOLIC ON THE SIGN DOESN'T MEAN IT IS. THE ANGLICANS LOOK CATHOLIC. IF YOU WERE BLINDFOLDED AND LED INTO A TRADITIONAL ANGLICAN cHURCH, YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE. THESE PEOPLE IN THE VATICAN ARE THE SAME. THEY MAY HOLD TO "SOME" CATHOLIC TEACHINGS BUT NOT THE TRUE FAITH. JUST LIKE THE ORTHODOX AND JUST LIKE THE ANGLICANS, THEY ARE NOT CATHOLIC. HOW CAN YOU SAY THESE FALSE "POPES" OF THE LAST 50 YEARS ARE CATHOLIC? THEY HAVE THROWN AWAY 2000 YEARS OF FAITH, TRADITION AND GROWTH OF THE CHURCH. LOOK ON THE VATICAN WEBSITE AND SEE IF YOU CAN FIND ANY OF THE PREVIOUS COUNCILS TO READ. YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO. THEY DID AWAY WITH ALL THE CHURCH HAS DONE FOR THE LAST 2 MILLENNIUM AND CREATED THEIR OWN RELIGION. THE SHAME IS THAT THEY FOOLED MANY GOOD PEOPLE TO GO WITH THEM.
I can, contrary to what you say, pray the Most Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary, and I do so every day! I pray the Liturgy of the Hours, I discern God's Holy Will, I am about to start St. Louis de Montfort's Total Consecration to Mary, and I have a devotion to the Sacred Heart of Our Lord. Can you fault me for those things? You certainly can fault me in other ways (I, being a sinner), but I do not think in those.
I AM VERY GLAD TO HEAR THESE THINGS! THESE ARE WHAT WILL LEAD YOU TO THE TRUTH. PRAY TO OUR BLESSED MOTHER FOR DISCERNMENT ABOUT WHAT WE ARE DISCUSSING.
I pray, brother....
IT'S BROTHER! :)
that you will hear my words with charity, because they have been written with charity. I have certainly rambled and probably not even made my point, for this, I apologize.
I HAVE RECEIVED YOUR WORDS WITH CHARITY AND I PRAY YOU WILL RECEIVE MINE IN THE SAME MANNER. ALSO, IF I MISSED SOMETHING OR YOU HAVE A QUESTION, PLEASE DON'T HESITATE TO LET ME KNOW
I WILL LEAVE YOU WITH A QUOTE AS WELL:
"We allude, Venerable Brethren, to many who belong to the Catholic laity, and, what is much more sad, to the ranks of the priesthood itself, who, animated by a false zeal for the Church, lacking the solid safeguards of philosophy and theology, nay more, thoroughly imbued with the poisonous doctrines taught by the enemies of the Church, and lost to all sense of modesty, put themselves forward as reformers of the Church; and, forming more boldly into line of attack, assail all that is most sacred in the work of Christ, not sparing even the Person of the Divine Redeemer, whom, with sacrilegious audacity, they degrade to the condition of a simple and ordinary mall."
--Saint Pope Pius X
MAY THE HOLY GHOST BLESS YOU WITH UNDERSTANDING AND A DESIRE FOR THE FAITH!
UNAFRAIDCATHOLIC, I'm sorry but I lost your email address in the posts! This whole blog thing is new to me and I accidentally erased permanantly it when I was erasing your double post and your email. Feel free to email me at realcatholicfaith@gmail.com.
ReplyDeleteMay the Holy Ghost and Our Blessed Mother bless you.